Former Vice President Mike Pence says Mark Meadows, Donald Trump’s last White House chief of staff, deserves a large chunk of the blame for the former president’s election denialism.

In an interview with NBC’s “Meet the Press" that aired Sunday, Pence criticized Meadows for not insulating Trump from outside advisers who pushed for Trump — with Pence’s help — to try to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election.

The former vice president drew a contrast to John Kelly, Trump’s first chief of staff. 

“What Gen. John Kelly did when he became White House chief of staff — and what, frankly, all the best White House chiefs of staff have done throughout history — is make sure that the only people that get into the Oval Office are people that have the credibility to be there,” Pence said. 

Pence said he believes “the fuse” that led to the Jan. 6, 2021, insurrection at the U.S. Capitol was lit in mid-November 2020. He described the Oval Office being filled with Trump’s campaign advisers, White House advisers and “new lawyers that were vying for the opportunity to lead the election challenges.” According to Pence, after Trump campaign lawyer Justin Clark explained to Trump that dozens of lawsuits were unlikely to be successful, Rudy Giuliani, told Trump over speakerphone: “Your lawyers are not telling you the truth, Mr. President.”

“Things got very heated,” Pence recounted. “But in that moment, it was a new low. There was shouting, there was yelling. But in the aftermath of that meeting, the president made the decision to replace his capable campaign lawyers with this widening circle of outside attorneys, who ultimately led him to the conclusion that I had the authority to overturn the election, which was demonstrably and historically false.”

Trump pressured Pence to reject on Jan. 6 results from certain states in which Trump and his allies claimed there was widespread election fraud despite more than 60 losses in court cases challenging the outcome and assertions from election and law-enforcement officials that there was no evidence to support the claims.

Pence, whose role in overseeing the certification of Electoral College votes was largely ceremonial, refused to go along with the plan, telling Congress in a letter that he did not have the authority to unilaterally determine which votes should and should not be counted. 

Trump tweeted on Jan. 6 that the Pence “didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution.” Soon after, people outside the Capitol were chanting, “Hang Mike Pence!”, video shows.

Pence and members of Congress were rushed to secure locations as the mob breached the building.

The former vice president would not say in the NBC interview if he believes Trump broke any laws related to Jan. 6 and his efforts to subvert the election.

“I don't know if it is criminal to listen to bad advice from lawyers,” Pence said. “Truth is, what the president was repeating is what he was hearing from that gaggle of attorneys around him.”

Trump, who announced last week he is running for president again in 2024, is facing a number of criminal investigations, including one by the Justice Department into efforts to overturn Joe Biden’s win over Trump in 2020. Attorney General Merrick Garland announced Friday that special counsel Jack Smith will lead that probe as well as another into classified and presidential documents found at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort.

Pence, who might run against Trump for the Republican nomination, said that “no one’s above above the law, but I would hope the Justice Department would give careful consideration before they take any additional steps in this matter,” adding he wants “to see the credibility of the Justice Department restored after years of politicization during the Trump-Pence administration.”

Pence also criticized Meadows for the White House shifting away from daily press briefings about the COVID-19 pandemic. 

“It was clear that he had talked the president out of White House coronavirus press briefings,” said Pence, who chaired the White House Coronavirus Task Force. “ … I've always believed that in a public health emergency more is more when it comes to information.”

Spectrum News has reached out to the Conservative Partnership Institute, where Meadows is a partner, for comment.