As part of a media blitz to promote her new book, former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is shedding new light on her thinking in the lead up and aftermath of President Joe Biden’s decision to drop out of the 2024 race for the White House and endorse Vice President Kamala Harris to take his place atop the Democratic ticket instead. 

In a radio interview with The New Yorker released on Thursday, Pelosi, who has remained a consequential figure in the Democratic party despite giving up her leadership role, sought to emphasize that Biden came to his own decision to step out of the race while making clear that she had concerns about his campaign’s ability to defeat former President Donald Trump in November. 

“I’ve never been that impressed with his political operation,” Pelosi said. “They won the White House, bravo. So my concern was – this ain’t happening, and we have to make a decision for this to happen and the President has to make the decision for that to happen.”

The former speaker noted she “really wanted him to make a decision for a better campaign” and felt Biden’s team was “not facing the facts of what was happening.” 

Pelosi, however, appeared to push back on some of the reporting at the time regarding her role in working behind the scenes to get the president to drop his bid. 

“I never called one person, I kept true to my word. Any conversation I had with it was just going to be with him. I never made one call,” she told The New Yorker. 

“They said I was burning up the lines, I was talking to Chuck, I didn’t talk to Chuck at all,” she added, referring to Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y.

Pelosi also recalled the day of the debate between Biden and Trump that sparked the panic within the Democratic party until the president’s announcement to step out. She said earlier in the day she told House Democrats not to worry, reminding them of Biden’s highly-lauded State of the Union performance in March. During the debate that night, however, Pelosi said everybody was “stunned.”

The former speaker, who has previously noted that she and Biden have not spoken since he dropped his reelection bid, said she didn’t know whether the president was currently angry at her. 

“I don’t know, we haven’t had a conversation,” she said. 

Asked about whether the two can keep their personal relationship, Pelosi said: “I hope so, I pray so, I cry so. I lose sleep on it.” 

When asked about the status of the relationship between the pair earlier this week, White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre said Biden “respects his good friend Speaker Pelosi.”

“We believe it's mutual,” she added. 

The former speaker also emphasized her overarching goal is making sure Trump is never in the White House again. In an MSNBC interview on Wednesday, she said some Republicans have told her that Democrats need to defeat Trump in the general election in order to “come back to our debate on the issues.” 

“They have told me – some of the Republicans – you have to beat them in the general because we can’t beat them in the primary and then we will come back to our debate on the issues,” she said. 

During her appearance on MSNBC on Wednesday, Pelosi also weighed in on Harris’ decision on Tuesday to pick Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz as her running mate, saying the choice wasn’t about “who can help you win” but “who can help you lead and guide the country into the future.” 

She added that the Harris-Walz ticket “has a certain magic to it.”